Jumping Issue Discussion

40 Comments·Updated 07 March 2019 11:29 AM
Juli KirklandJuli Kirkland Juli KirklandComments: 45 Moderator
edited March 7 in General Discussion
This topic board is for all of you to let Kate know the issues you are having in the game and possible suggestions to help develop a fix ... 
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  • Juli KirklandJuli Kirkland Juli KirklandComments: 45 Moderator
    Jumping has become a HUGE topic in most of the walls for the game . Ive spoken to many players in the chats and walls in regards to this .Top teams are becoming bored having the same battles each week and more often than not the team they face is all small accounts as the bigger accounts have jumped to a lower battleship for crates. We feel a good solution would be to introduce blind battles so no one can see who their pairing may potentially be and to scramble the top 10-20 battleships so they are not always playing against the same teams. It gives everyone in that top realm to re position themselves . Not knowing who you will battle will bring back the excitement and anticipation of battle day and I believe will entice everyone to stay put and grow as a strike group as it was intended . 

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  • Paul FonderPaul Fonder Paul FonderComments: 11 Moderator
    edited December 2018

    Oh, this blind battle idea would be fun! As a member of the American Wolverines team, the battles have become very predictable the last few months. We face Wire and lose, then we face Alis or Phoenix rising and win. We never see any other teams to battle!

    I have seen players that have jumped in the past, now settle into good strong teams, but there are still those high level players that are jumping onto low level battleships. There are still whole teams from the top 5 that will move to a different ship on battle days.

    I cannot imagine as a new player trying to develop their personal base and attack strength finding a team to join, get to know those players, develop friendships, like we all do with teammates. Then set up battle strategies to face an opponent of equal development and BOOM, find themselves facing a team of jumpers of levels they can only dream of. How can these new players want to continue playing the game when this is happening? We all understand that without new players entering the game, the game will die out. I know the long time players do not want this to happen. We need to find a solution.

    We have heard many ideas about how to stop the jumpers. We have seen and become involved in many, many discussions on the game sites, like Junk or one of the others. What that always points out to me, is that this jumping IS a problem. I do NOT want to see the developers just make a rule that stops jumping cold. I kind of like the idea of having a few "mercenary type players" out in the game that can help out a team every now and again. Nothing wrong with helping out a friend. Those that want to jump, go ahead. Maybe we could have someone set up a game page just for Mercenary Players to find a team for battle.  

    This idea of a Blind Battle set up will allow the rest of us to face different opponents and at the same time, it might just stop, or at least slow down the situation where a whole team jumps to avoid facing a certain opponent. I see this as a Good thing for this game we have all come to enjoy so much.

    thank you for listening.

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  • harryburglerharryburgler harryburglerComments: 6
    edited December 2018
    Great idea, it would change things up a bit to not face the same two teams every battle. Some of the newer players I know have quit because of high lvls jumping to their small ship to guarantee a crate. One idea if a team leaves their ship to go to a low lvl for a crate punish them by not giving them a crate, that would stop it. Anyway great idea on blind battles. :) 
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  • well yes i like the idea of blind battle , it is really getting boring facing 2 teams all the time , some change in any game will make it better and more exciting . at least you can give it a try i'am sure all will like it well no not all jumpers will hate it :)))) 
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  • Well...where to start...blind battles?.....cut the field into 10's...top 10 teams battle randomly each other...never same team each battle...never to know who you battle until the day of?...then other teams 11-20 same format...and so on? Sounds wonderful...sounds like a challenge for teams who want to see what they are made of..where they stand against better teams. But on the flip side..im sure the players that cant handle the strain of losing units and losing a battle to a better team...and jump the higher ships to go down to lower ships to...how do we say it in the other game i play..."World of Tanks"?....oh yeah...they jump ship to "Seal Club" lower players. I just wonder what kind of satisfaction that gives them... If Playkot decides to go to a battle format where the teams battle a random opponent on Battle Day...i will gladly accept it with open arms. Take heed tho Playkot...if you do go to battles that way...you will hear alot of "Ship Jumpers" crying!!!!...lol
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  • maybe I have a better idea ... if the teams of the game divide into 3 categories, A, B, C, and each team according to the average position of 5-6 battles below, participate in the appropriate category, then we can talk about battles blind ... I do not think otherwise that can work dear friends. thank you.
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  • John C. WiserJohn C. Wiser John C. WiserComments: 14
    edited January 3
    From what I have been able to gather, another purpose of jumping is this: A team starts a second ship along with each member starting a second account to be on it. The purposes of the second accounts are to get crates from GO which are only spent on upgrading weapons, reactors and depots on the bigger ship. Also, the second accounts swap ships with the main accounts every so often so that the bigger accounts can win more battles thus getting more crates. The bigger accounts use their notes primarily for uranium boosts and to speed up their base upgrades. Doing this allows the primary ship to grow faster without out affecting the main accounts of each player in regards to keeping the reactors boosted and their ability to speed up their upgrades. In other words it is a way to manufacture more bank notes without having to buy them.
    -
    Our team, Black Force, does not want to build a second ship and create second accounts to join in the jumping system, but if we continue to be matched up against teams where the battle is already decided as soon as it starts then we will have to decide how we will proceed in the game. Any option (jumping, not jumping or quitting altogether) that we could choose would not be as much fun for us as it would be if we could just stay on our home ship and feel like we are at least competitive in every battle.
    -
    Why not create the matchups based off of a mathematical formula encompassing average player level and ship level? That way when players jump to a different ship they still get a competitive matchup regardless of the average player level and ship level.
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  • king31aliking31ali king31aliComments: 8
    hellow,  
    i have a goos solution
    1. if a all members of a team jump to another ship, and many player give you a picture and complain, so delete the lower ship and give all team a warning to not do that again
    2. make another batlle 1/10 days, batlle between 4 teams wich have same rank, same rule , 30 islands and 2 ship to destroy for both team
    cheers
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  • A SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR JUMPERS!
    All battles are matched up by your strike force rank.
    Playkot should subtract a players level from the Strike force rank every time a player leaves the ship and add a players level every time he joins a ship.

    If a level 40 player leaves and returns, or is replaced with a 40 then strike force rank (- 40 +40) stays the same.

    If a level 40 player is replaced with a 70 then strike force rank (- 40 +70) is increased by 30.

    If a whole ship of level 40 player is replaced with a whole ship of level 70 players, then strike force rank (- 600 +1050) is increased by 450.

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  • Dear Kate, this discussion started a month ago and you have not made any comment yet. I personally do not care if other teams jump or not, but I do expect the game to provide us with matchups that are reasonable. Eagerly waiting four days for a battle just to find that the battle is over before it begins is not fun and fun is what people want from a game. When the best part of the game, which in my opinion is the battles, is no longer fun then they will leave to find a game that is more fun. If you want us to stay here then we need some sort of returned communications from Playkot that they recognize that there is a problem and that they plan to change the match-making system in the near future. So far I can't even tell if you have read this thread.
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  • kate_alkate_al Freshly on the board kate_alComments: 64 Community Manager
    edited January 15
    Hi everyone!

    Thank you all for sharing your opinions and suggestions on how to solve the issue. Jumping is one of the biggest pains in our game, it's damaging and unsportsmanlike. Not only it goes against fair play principles we want to encourage in battles, not only it brings down our matchmaking system, but it also frustrates teams and discourages them from playing battles. And it wasn't part of the plan.

    As you know, we've implemented a cooldown rule which was supposed to stop multi-account carousels and other abusive behavior.

    We never wanted to make these rules too strict, partly because we know most of the players play fair, and we didn't want these strict rules to affect those who weren't guilty in the first place.

    Basically, right now, even when the players already have their cooldown penalty that needs 7 days to drop, the current periodicity of Strike Battles quite fits into the mode "One battle on our main Battleship, another one — on the lower one". I.e. the cooldown resets in 7-8 days, and the teams have the full squad to move from group to group right to the next battle.

    I believe that jumping in top & middle-top clans can be associated with the predictability of matchmaking: most of the time, big teams know whom they will battle. Also, as GunnyJC said, the other reason is a desire to upgrade the bigger ship faster.

    We don't think the matchmaking system is not working. You probably heard it a thousand times, but Elo-based matchmaking is world-wide used in sports and PVP games and well, yep, it's not perfect but it works for the most teams each battle. It doesn't mean we deny the idea of improving the matchmaking system in the future, but for now, it works 98 out of 100 times. One of the reasons of mismatching is that teams jump up and down so battleship's ranking points do not reflect the real picture.

    We don't ignore the problem, but it meets a lot of players' needs that we keep the solution smart and simple at the same time, but not too strict. We are looking for such a solution. We're watching how it works in other games. Some have penalties don't reset at all: once you have 1-day penalty, it'll stick with you forever and will double each time you transit. The restriction is very serious. The recruitment threads with notes about finding allies are filled with messages like "Looking for a clan! I have a cooldown of 11 days". Looks bad, but seems to work.

    Some games have a constant cooldown of 48-hours for each transition, but players say it won't work properly (well, we can relate, right?)
    I am considering the big community survey to find out how all the community feels about this kind of behavior, and what part of the community suffers from it. Will be probably announced on community page and here, too. Again, thank you guys for your insightful, reasoned, and polite discussion. I'd like to hear what do you think about the tightening the transition rules? Do you think this would really help?
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  • este juego siempre pasa lo mismo wire gana el volcanium wire gana todas las batallas wire gana todo deben crear una nueva liga de clasificacion como dijo juli y que luchen entre ellos en batallas y volcanium del puesto 100 a 1000 debe a ver un premio mayor por lo menos de 5 mil dolares y una caja de prueba de acero 
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  • Thank you for your reply Kate. The cooldown period - penalty system that you are describing will not work because teams that are jumping will just extend their time on their ships to defeat this idea. We have a member on our ship that has other accounts that are part of a jumping team. They do not jump every battle, but instead jump back and forth about every five or six battles. This still accomplishes their purpose of driving down their Strike Group rank on one ship while consistently winning crates on the other one. Also, some of these groups have more than just two ships so while they are winning on one ship they have several others that are intentionally losing SG rank points. There is no way that I can tell you what percentage of the teams out there are involved in jumping, but I can tell you that the current match-making system is not working for my team. We face teams at least one third of the time that we have no chance to defeat. We are a well-organized team that communicates well and looks forward to a challenge, but that challenge must be somewhat within reason. Until recently we have tried our best, but some of those battles were decided before they even started. Our last battle we did not make one single attack as a sign of protest to the other team as we had no hope of winning that battle. The opposing team averaged just over nine levels higher than us and their ship was three levels higher. Waiting days in anticipation of the next battle only to find that matchup was not fun and a game is supposed to be fun. It is my view that the current match-making system is not working and it cannot work as long as teams find a way to continue their practice of jumping.
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  • I think you need to try something very soon. more and more players are complaining every battle and getting very discouraged by your apparent lack of interest. try something. if it doesn`t work out, then try something else. a solution will be found. but please start working on it now while it`s still a fun game and there are still lots of players. the longer you wait, the more players are going to start looking for a new game with a more level playing field.
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  • Paul FonderPaul Fonder Paul FonderComments: 11 Moderator

    Hello Kate, Thanks for finally addressing this issue.

    As you, yourself stated in your response, the jumping in the top and middle level teams does in fact happen because of the predictability of the matchmaking. That is why I like the idea of a "Blind Battle" set up. This can be devised to be formed of the top 5 teams, the teams ranked from 5 -10 and so on, Or it can be set up to be completely random for all teams in the top 20, and even beyond. The format of the teams that battle and what their rankings are is the key to this working. I feel that a level 20 team will be very hard pressed to defeat a top 5 team, but we have witnessed surprising results in the volcano events from lower ranked teams with players that have developed remarkable attack skills.

    I know in the top teams, the players have grown very weary of facing the same opponents over and over every battle. This change will help promote the old excitement of battle day once again!

    I truly hope that you guys in development put the rush on developing a way to slow this team jumping issue.

    After every battle all we see on the chat pages are players insulting each other over this very issue. This team jumping is becoming a bigger issue every week it seems.

    I really hope that by working together with your staff, we are able to help you guys develop a way to stop teams from doing this.

     I can only imagine how discouraging it is as a beginning or lower level player or team to work all week gathering the necessary gear to help your team, only to find you have been matched against a team of high level jumpers! This waste of time and recourses, not to mention the disappointment as the battle begins, I am sure is a contributing factor to players giving up on this game.

    Thank you Kate, and please keep us all advised of the ideas as you develop them!


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  • If you want to do blind ,you have to limit the battle. It would be unfair lvl 25 or 23 facing lvl 19 or lower. Still i still see there is loophole, even if you do the blind battle. I would still not recommend .
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  • edited January 16
    How about you are not allowed to battle if your team has more than 4 different members from the battle 5 days ago?  If you want to battle, then you can only change out 4 members.  If you do more, you are locked out of battle until the next one.  4 new members is just a suggestion and welcome whatever number of changes to battle team that most of us feel is appropriate.

    If teams start to try to rotate 4 members around every battle, then stop players from rejoining a team that they have battled with in the last month in cases where they battled with another team prior to returning.
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  • the top 100 battle will be by drawing lots :
    *10 battle from top 20 team by drawing lots
    *15 battle from top 50 team (21 to 50) by drawing lots
    *25 battle from top 100 team (51 to 100) by drawing lots
    *this rules don't affect other team, so from 101th team Nothing will change (they will play by the old rules)... and the system must count only team who sent request so last time to send request : 1 hour before battle (for exemple) then if we check classement last hour before battle we will find only team who sent request (about team who didn't sent request the system can give them rank 0 just at battle)
    *top 20 : 3 crate every win
    *top 50 : 2 crate evry win
    *top 51+ old rules for reward , so 1 crate sure and chance to get 2nd one... 
    advantage for this rules :
    --->> a lot of team will stop jumping
    --->> you will no know your opponent before battle so we have more suspense
    --->> you have more chance to meet more team so you need just to enter top 20 to have chance to meet wire or seals... and the 3th team have more chance to win more battle an 4th and 5th too , they will have more chance to win more battle...
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  • So I ask all that have commented so far, how does your idea make people want to stop jumping AT ALL LEVELS? I do not see how blind battles or focusing on the top 100 teams helps us lower to mid level teams where jumping is causing a lot of problems with unrealistic battle matchups. The "fix" needs to affect all teams all across the board regardless of level. I am not a high level player so it is impossible for me to intelligently remark on what would help those higher level teams and players, but I do think I have a pretty good handle on what is happening at the lower to mid levels. Teams in these levels are not jumping because they are bored with the same old matchups. They are jumping to get more crates without buying them so that they can build their primary ship and primary team faster. The teams that are jumping in these levels have multiple ships and multiple teams. One of the ships is the primary ship and one of the teams is the primary team. The goal of the primary team is to keep moving between ships often enough that they should win and therefore get a crate. The crates that the primary team wins from battles, GO, Volcano, etc are mostly used on the primary team's bases. The purpose of the secondary team or teams is to intentionally lose battles on whichever ship they are on to drive the Strike Group rank of that particular ship down so that when the primary team jumps to it they should get easy wins and the crates that go with winning. The secondary teams take the crates that they win from the GO, Volcano, etc and "invest" them in building the primary ship faster whenever they jump to it. The only way to prevent this type of jumping is to make the jumping strategy ineffective. That can only be done by using a match-making system that reacts to changes within a team between battles. There have been a couple of viable options given above that I think could work such as a mathematical algorithm which incorporates both average player levels and ship levels or a modified ELO system such as the idea described above by munchyman1.
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  • Slo SageSlo Sage Slo SageComments: 1
    I agree with GunnyJC. Most teams love a challenge on battle day. It's frustrating to prepare for "Battle Day" and find the match is over because you are extremely over-matched by island and ship size or boring because the ship you face is full of "ghost" players there to lose. To me the Blind Battle idea says one of two things, all the ship jumping is being done or being caused by the top 10 to 20 teams.... OR, only the top 10 or 20 teams need to be satisfied with the solution (since you said scrambling the top 10 to 20 teams would address the issue)..Here is another idea then.. Go ahead do the Blind Match for those top 20 teams.. the rest of us.. we want FAIR and COMPETITIVE matches that take into account Island and Ship levels !!  Now, fair matchups... jump all ya want. 
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  • Juli KirklandJuli Kirkland Juli KirklandComments: 45 Moderator
    Thank you all for taking the time to give such great constructive feed back :) Keep your ideas and suggestions coming as this helps everyone in the community 
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  • Its been suggested many many times directed to playkot support to change your control panel yet you still ignore the obvious solution to ship hopping and the the easy solution to fair game play. Setting the control panel to asllow a maximum player level to certan group level is the only way you can make this work, It keeps high level players off low level ships and low level off high level ships to grab the plasmas and acid howitzers making it also unfair play. Playkot said that would stop high level players from starting new groups well to be honest they can use there second low level accounts they created for for ship hopping with there 2nd ship right ? Dont tell me that cant be done. 
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  • This is indicative of the problem that seems to be getting more and more common in the mid-levels. This is a level 8 battleship with all players over level 60 and eight of them are level 70 or higher. If you look them up right now you will see that the players have not gathered much liberium at all so you know this is a jumping team. On tropic Storm Junk their XO openly admits that they currently have four battleships and will soo have a fifth one. When is this going to get stopped? Image may contain 1 person smilingImage may contain 1 person text
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  • Paul FonderPaul Fonder Paul FonderComments: 11 Moderator

    Kate, I know you guys are looking at this team jumping. What I am going to ask is this:

    Does Playkot see team jumping as a problem?

    If you are looking at all the conversations on the different game chats you can see that this is by far the biggest issue on the game. I think, as a long time player we all deserve an answer to this easy question.

    If Playkot does NOT see this issue of team jumping as a problem, it answers all my questions and I will either adjust my play and stop spending money like I do or just stop the game.

    Please...…..an answer is all we ask of you! At least then, we know you are looking into a viable way to change this from happening. If there is an inkling of a change to address this, I will be happy to wait...…….for now.

    thank you

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  • kate_alkate_al Freshly on the board kate_alComments: 64 Community Manager
    edited February 13

    Kate, I know you guys are looking at this team jumping. What I am going to ask is this:

    Does Playkot see team jumping as a problem?

    If you are looking at all the conversations on the different game chats you can see that this is by far the biggest issue on the game. I think, as a long time player we all deserve an answer to this easy question.

    If Playkot does NOT see this issue of team jumping as a problem, it answers all my questions and I will either adjust my play and stop spending money like I do or just stop the game.

    Please...…..an answer is all we ask of you! At least then, we know you are looking into a viable way to change this from happening. If there is an inkling of a change to address this, I will be happy to wait...…….for now.

    thank you

    Hi Paul!

    We sure do see it as a problem. Mostly because it's doesn't correlate with our Fair Play principles: we do not tolerate abusive behavior in battles or elsewhere in Tropic Storm.

    At the same time, you know Battles are the big part of the game. Which is why we don't want to rush things too much, it's too important. Though I know at this point it might sound weird because we know the problem's been around for quite a while now. But despite that, we don't want to make a hasty decision. The solution has to be effective, it has to be abuse-proof and, moreover, it has to be safe for those who doesn't jump. So you probably want us to make sure the solution affects the problem the way it should, and that there's no workaround for abusers, and that it will not affect the fair players. Even though you guys shared a lot of ideas on how to improve battles there's no bullet-proof solution until this day. I gotta say that, instead of using punishing methods, the team wants to find a solution that will encourage players to stay within the clan. We're still open for the discussion of ways to do so.

    Our small team is now focused on finishing the Test Station milestone, which is providing more unit and Destroyer abilities. We hope the release will take place somewhere around March. But we'll keep on looking into the hoppers issue as well.
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  • Benefits of Jumping:
    1 - get friends and establish alliances between ships and between players.
    2. After several strong battles, the team will need some rest and save the gear
    So instead of sitting in your ship and receiving a loss, go to another ship that has a low rank while your ship loses points and when you return to it the opponent will be weaker
    3 - This game is game society and not the game of one team in the sense that if you think that you must strengthen the relationship between the members of the team is a mistake must strengthen relations with each player in this game
    There is no impediment that makes you gain a level 80 player even if your ship is  Level 8
    It depends on your intelligence in attracting the big boys
    4 - a great opportunity to face large islands and ships and gain great experience when faced with such teams
    5 - activate brain cells and force the whole team to follow a certain tactic when facing a very strong opponent. Rather than throwing bombs at a small team
    6- There are about 3,000 ships in this game, but only a small percentage of them complain about jumping because they have  IQ= (-100) 
    Thanks... 
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  • Just a though...
    • Liberium counter resets every time you join a new alliance. 
    • Battle Request for alliances should only be available if each "Member" has "X" amount of Liberium. 
    • No Battle Request availability for alliances until each member meet Liberium threshold.
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  • cjpellcjpell cjpellComments: 1
    How about setting a limit to 3 times for joining the same ship, once the the limit is reached the player is blocked from that ship unless they pay 6000 banknotes for every time they join that ship after they used there 3 chances?  It's a win for fair players and a win for playkot to make money!  This would prevent the jumping problem in my opinion.
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  • all this talk of jumping,but not much has been said about unfair ship matchups,how is a lvl 10 ship supposed to stand a chance against a lvl 14 ship,this is the biggesr problem for me

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  • Juli KirklandJuli Kirkland Juli KirklandComments: 45 Moderator
    Dean , I can shed a small bit of light on this for you as well .. Teams are paired by battleship ranking , depending on whether your team wins or losses depends on the ranking you will be rewarded or deducted from next battle.  Jumping teams plays a huge role in this as larger teams jump down to a lower ranking ship they trade spaces with the lower level players to do 2 things  lowering the ranking of their larger battleships for an easier win in the next battle while winning a crate on a lower ranking battleship. By doing this is upsets the balance of match ups which leads to unfair advantages against a level 10 battleship vs a 14 battleship . The pairing is matched by wins and losses of each ship collectively as a team not by individual or level of player or battleship.   
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  • how can people have  2 Destroyers
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  • There is a solution to jumping I have written Playkot on many occasions to this solution. The control panel where a leader can set the player level for a level to join his group. This is where playkot can change it. They can reset the values where as a leader can not allow a player level any higher than as per group level. For example level groups from 1 to 4 nothing higher than level 40 player then on and on to keep the high level players in higher level groups. Playkot has argued that keeps high level players from starting a new ship/group well that is bs because that player already has a lower level account for the purpose of jumping back and forth and if not then create one. Ehat has happened here is also the jumpers already have created another fb account high level player in the game and a low level player they have 2 ships to jump back and forth to keep both ships with a win/loss pattern to stay at a point level that keeps them away from fair competetion and at the same time they are using there bigger ship to give advantage to there lower level account players such as the acid and plasmas, low level 30s players having maxed out on these where as normal 30s level players do not get or have. Again playkot has a solution in there control panel it is an easy fix and they can not argue this. I have been in the gaming community for many years owned game servers in the UT community so its time Playkot stop pulling the wool over your eyes. One more thing to mention word is out I wont mention group yet but there are high level groups selling again so this solution would solve this issue. Stop this unfair play. You have lost control of your game. 

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  • notrub10notrub10 notrub10Comments: 2
    Ban all people who leave or who are booted from a ship rejoining that same ship for a month !! job done no more jumping lol or only allow two changes per team per week so two players out and two in 
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  • @ssed, 2 weeks in a row of this team stacking.Im seeing it from our level 5 6 and 9 groups not to mention from many others in the forums at tropic Junk. WE need more people to speak up and speak out against it until playkot stops it. AGAIN the simple solution is in the control panel 

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  • well i have been keeping a close eye on the issue of groups jumping and it is not sloing down in fact watching the comments in other forums it is being reccomemnded to everyone to do it more often. I am seeing level 9 groups now with there system points as low as 1000 and 11 as low as 900s, This is getting out of hand and once again I will remind EVERYONE that I have suggested to Playkot to change the control panel ( this is where the leader sets the level of player allowed to join there group )  to where as it is set to a max and a minimum as per group level. This would stop high level players from joining lower level groups and vice versa. They have yet to give me 1 reason why they can not make this change. They swear by there elo system and that elo system works fine in regular play but it does not work in battle, A level 5 group (ship) against a (9) in battle does not match well. the elo system fails because of the ship hopping. Changing the control system would solve the battle issues.SO i recommend everyone keep sending your complaints until they make changes. 
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  • all they have to do is when you leave a ship you cant come back to it 

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  • Jorn CoenraadsJorn Coenraads Jorn CoenraadsComments: 55 Moderator

    Later this week the Issue of Jumpers will Start to be Dealt with by some Rule changes!

    No word yet as to what exactly will be done, but It Has Started! I am sure there will be more coming after this change too!

    Watch the Community Page for the Official Announcement

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  • Duc Hy NguyenDuc Hy Nguyen Duc Hy NguyenComments: 24 ✭✭
    Following the recent changes, it should make it harder to switch alliance as the cooldown is doubled every time. Is that right @Jorn Coenraads ?

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  • Jorn CoenraadsJorn Coenraads Jorn CoenraadsComments: 55 Moderator
    Yes thats right.

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